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« Constant Changing is All | Main | Bonding with Band: Or Is That Banding with Bill? »

January 17, 2008


Carlos Hidalgo

I could not agree with you more that the CRM vendors have completely underperformed when it has come to their marketing modules. What I find intriguing is the statements about the conversations with the market place and distancing this conversation and positioning in almost stark contrast with the word campaign. If as you say that "Marketing is undergoing a transformation that changes it from an organization that is responsible for first, generating leads, and second, positioning the company accordingly, to an organization whose model is to be the first line of engagement and conversation with the customer". Would that and could it not be done via a campaign that allows for the customer to drive the conversation? Would it be that we have actually come to a new era of marketing that could be labeled "customer conversation management -TM?" I agree that the role of marketing is changing to a conversation but would not make the leap to say that campaigns are dead. Campaigns run within this change, by marketers who understand this change truly do start and continue conversations and to do so also understand the value of the internal process by which marketing runs.

As for the pronouncement of Eloqua as the king of all demand generation solutions, I am curious as to what other packages you viewed and what criteria you used to make this assessment? While there are many packages ranging from simple e-mail management to full blown customer conversation management or as you state "demand generation" I know a lot of them and would welcome your inputs into the various solutions and the pro's and con's you have seen?

Filiberto Selvas

Beautiful! But don’t forget the programs :)

Love what you wrote! May your call be hard and give us the tools we need to move on to the program execution. Like with any other CRM aspect the proper application of these tools (which is what I call the programs) is what will make this an incredible improvement over prior capabilities. Those companies that understand the value of an authentic, ongoing, and intimate conversational relationship with customers will reap great benefits in co-creation of value and word of mouth marketing.

Filiberto Selvas

Paul G.

Hi Wouter,
By the way, thank you very much for your more than flattering comments a few weeks ago. They were too kind.

In answer to your comment, you are EXACTLY right that blogs, wikis, podcasts, social networks are tools - and only tools But not just tools for providing information about customers and their behavior. They are also tools that the customer can use to personalize their experiences with the company which in return gets a loyal customer or optimally an advocate. They are bidirectional in that regard. The company gathers insight, the customer gets what they need to "love" their experience with the company. The social tools are part of a toolset.

As far as privacy goes, I'm not envisioning these marketing efforts utilizing social tools the way that Facebook used Beacon. I'm thinking more that they are offerings to a customer to enrich their relationships - not to steel feedback. I'm also a HUGE fan of the opt-in model.

As far as the not happy to participate customers, I'm a little unclear on what you mean by that. If who just has commercial goals?

I agree with you about the Epiphany Interaction Advisor - but I have no idea what Infor did with it when they bought SSA who bought Epiphany and I'm not looking at offer optimization engines but instead full functional marketing applications - the kind that Allegis used to offer, among others. Back in the day. Sigh.

You are very smart guy and I hope to some day get to meet you.

Wouter Trumpie


Do you intend to say that marketing (or should I have added 2.0 to that) is the art of convincing your customer to start a conversation with your company about a product and keeping them interested by prodiving them interesting product propositions, that they may or may not go for, tailored based on their specific needs and wants. Or flirting with your customer and convicing them to go for that first date? I feel that social networks, blogs and wikis are merely tools that can provide information about customers and their behavior, that can be used to tailor product propositions / offers to their needs. I do however feel that this could cause some privacy issues (remember beacon). Some customers may not be to happy about participating in typical Web 2.0 platforms if they just have a commercial goal. But hey, I mostly dabble in sales and service automation, so what do I know.

As far as providing interesting offers during a customer contact (whether it be online, on the phone or face to face) I've always found that ePiphany's interaction advisor provides interesting functionality.


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